Raising the finger, Ameen and Mahdi

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4 years 10 months ago #15 by Imam Rassi Society
Reposted
Salam brother !

1)Brother what is zaidi view on Raising the finger in Tashud ?

2)And what about saying ameen at the end of Surah al Fateeha ( Surah AL hamdu LILAH ) ?

3)what is zaidi view on Imam Mahdi a.s ahadees about him are mentioned both in shia and suni ahadees books ! what is your view on this matter ?

JazakALLAH !!
Salamz!

1.) Generally Zaidis dont raise the finger in the tashahhud. This is because it negates the Prophet's (sawas) command: ((Be calm in the prayer)). Those reports that mention the raising of the finger are disputed even amongst the scholars of the Generality. That being said, there is a hadith in one of our books of hadith Amaali Abu Talib narrated on the authority of Ja'far as-Saadiq (as) in which the Prophet is reported to have said: ((Indicating with the finger is a testimony to Allah's Sublimity (musabbiha)...)) Allah knows best regarding its authenticity. It is for this reason that some of our scholars permit raising the finger in tashahhud at the point that one says Laa ilaha ila Allah--similar to what the Hanifis do.

2.) regarding Ameen after Surah al-Hamd, there is consensus of the imams of ahl al-Bayt that this is prohibited. This is for a number of reasons: 1st, Allah prohibits speech in the prayer--refer to the tafseer of Qur'an 2:238. 2nd, Allah commands that we be silent during the recitation of the Qur'an--see Qur'an 7:204. 3rd, the Prophet (sawas) said in an authenticated hadith: ((No speech is suitable for the prayer. The prayer is only recitation of the Qur'an, tasbeeh, tahmeed, tahleel)) and in some narrations ((...takbeer...)). 4th, those narrations that say that Ameen was recited are all weak. 5th, there is a hadith where the Prophet (sawas) said: ((When the imam says "...wa ladhdhaaleen" listen silently)).

3.) Are concept of Imam Mahdi (as) is the same as that of the Sunnis. He will be a descendant of Fatima and Ali (as) and he will establish justice on the earth. We do not agree with the Shia who say that he has come and will return. We await his coming. Please refer to our translation Jawab ar-Raqi on this site or our scribd site, www.scribd.com/imamrassisociety

And Allah knows best!

IRS

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4 years 7 months ago - 4 years 7 months ago #264 by Yahya
As salamu 'alaykum ! Concerning the failure to lift the finger, do you have a sunni proof (from Ahl al-Bayt or others Companions) that can be given to them to support this view please ? I saw a text that the earlier hanafis do not rise the finger, but without more arguments, and when I ask a hanafi, I never have a clearer answer.
Last edit: 4 years 7 months ago by Yahya.

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4 years 7 months ago #268 by Imam Rassi Society
wa alaykum as salaam.

Sorry for the delay in responding! As for the raising of the finger and countering it with Sunni proof, I'm not really sure if there is a counter proof from a Sunni perspective as it is typical of Sunni practice and tradition. I have witness some Turkish Hanafis not raise their fingers in tashahhud but I am not sure of the reason.

I guess one could argue from the perspective that there are various conflicting narrations about when and how to raise the finger. Some say throughout the whole tashahhud, some say at the point you say Laa ilaha ila Allah, some say the right hand is balled in a fist except the forefinger, some say the fingers of the right hand are spread, some say the middle finger and thumb touches with the forefinger extended, some say one points with the forefinger without moving it and others say that you move the forefinger, some say you move it in a circle, some say you move it from side to side, and it just goes on. Such conflict demonstrates the possible inauthenticity of the practice as there is no mutually agreed way to do it. Each sect has its proof which the others reject. That would be my argument at least.

And Allah knows best!

IRS

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4 years 6 months ago #276 by Yahya
Thank you very much !

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