Ascribing a direction to Allah and giving Him literal attributes?

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6 years 8 months ago #614 by Pro-Alid
Salam,

The Salafis claim that Allah is literally above the throne and thus ascribe a direction Allah. Zaydis claim that ascribing a direction to Allah is limiting Him - could you please explain how?

Salafis also argue that Allah has attributes like a hand, although not like ours (bi la kayf) without saying how or describing its modality. One of their analogies used by them to support this, is that all Muslims agree that Allah is able to hear and see, and that human beings are also able to hear and see - the difference being that Allah is able to hear and see in a way which is not like our ability to do so, and in a way which befits His Majesty - likewise, Allah also has a hand in a way which is not like ours. How do we respond to this? Why is claiming that Allah is able to hear and see not likening Him to his His creating but claiming that he has a hand is?

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6 years 8 months ago #616 by Imam Rassi Society
Salaams!

Thank you for question! As for the ascription of space to Allah, we say that it is a limitation because if he existed in a space He would be encompassed and surrounded by that which He created. If He is encompassed by that which He created, He would be dependent upon that which He created because encompassment implies a enveloping and containment by something greater. Can anything not be dependent on that which encompasses it? Think about a fish in water or a human in the atmosphere of oxygen. Anything contained in something is dependent on that thing. Therefore, we say that attributing place to Allah limits Him and restricts Him. Hopefully this is clear.

As for the second statement, we say that the bi la kayf doctrine is logically faulty because explaining something by saying that it is unable to be explained is contradictory and illogical. It would be similar to me saying "The only thing that is truthful is that nothing is truthful." The statement negates itself.

I guess an easier way to reply to the Salafi is that the analogy is faulty because saying that Allah hears and sees unlike our hearing and seeing implies a comparison of actions whereas saying that Allah's hand is unlike our hand implies an object. That is to say that the comparison of an object and the comparison of an action are two different things. If one meant a figurative 'Hand' in the case of Allah and a literal hand in the case of a human being, it would be unnecessary for one to say "Allah has a hand unlike our hands." It would only be necessary to say that Allah has a hand unlike our hand if a literal hand is meant by both because the statement implies difference in form not difference in style of speech.

Hopefully this helps! And Allah knows best!

IRS

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6 years 8 months ago #617 by Pro-Alid
Barakallahu feek for the reply.

So would this be a good way of putting it: Allah cannot have a body, because bodies need space and time. This contradicts the ayah which says “Allah is absolutely free of need of anything in the worlds”. (Quran 29:6)
If so, what if the Salafi responds by saying that Allah is All-Powerful and is capable of having a body without being in need of anything? Do we say that Allah is not All-Powerful?

About the second statement, does this mean that we say Allah's ability to see and hear are just metaphorical?

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6 years 8 months ago #619 by Imam Rassi Society
Thank you for your question!

Your argument is sound. If the Salafi were to respond that Allah is Omnipotent and able to have a body, we say that there are things that are either impossible out of ability or impossible out of sheer impossibility of being. For example, it is impossible for me to lift a car out of inability. I can't lift the car now but with proper weight training and time, I could eventually lift it. However, it would be impossible for me to walk backwards and forwards simultaneously out of sheer impossibility of being. There would be no time that I could do that.

We say that there are things that Allah can't do--not out of inability--but out of the sheer impossibility of being. For example, Allah cannot create a square without angles not because He is unable but rather because a square cannot exist without angles. Similarly, we say that Allah's not occupying space is an essential attribute of Him for the reasons we mentioned before. Therefore, we say that He cannot occupy space not because of inability but out of sheer impossibility of being.

We say that Allah's hearing and seeing are figurative. Otherwise, we would say that He possesses ears and eyes and that is impossible regarding Allah.

And Allah knows best!

IRS

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