Abu Bakr's repentance for angering Fatima

More
6 years 7 months ago #686 by Pro-Alid
I must thank you again for another detailed reply.

Is the Al-Khutba Al-Fadakiyyah by Fatima az-Zahra considered reliable by Zaydis? If so, does its content differ with the Twelver version of the khutbah? The reason I ask, is because the Twelver version states that Fatima was supposed to inherit the land of Fadak as opposed to it having been a gift she received during the Prophet’s lifetime: "O Muslims! Is it befitting that I am deprived of my inheritance? O son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr)! Is it contained in the Glorious Qurʾan that one should inherit from their father; while in your opinion, I should not inherit from my father?"

Some Twelvers claim that Fatima was in the possession of a piece of paper which read that the land of Fadak had been given to her as a gift only for it to be ripped into pieces by Abu Bakr or Umar - does this report exist within Zaydi sources?

Could you also explain why Imam Ali never returned Fadak back to the Ahl al-Bayt during his time as khalifa if the land did indeed belong to the family of the Prophet?

I'd also like to know a little more about Mansur Billah Abdullah bin Hamza’s interpretation of the hadith. How did he reach the conclusion that the wording of the report refers to sadaqa and why did he accept its authenticity if it doesn’t exist in Zaydi sources?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 7 months ago #688 by Imam Rassi Society
Thank you for your questions! The sermon of Fadak is similarly narrated in Zaydi sources such as Al-'Ilaam. Sorry, I am not familiar with the 12er version. So I really can't compare it to the Zaydi version.

As for Sayyida Faatima's (as) demand for inheritance, remember that her demand from Abu Bakr was for more than Fadak. She was also demanding her share of Khaybar which was a part of her inheritance. Her claim of inheritance was not related to Fadak.

I am unfamiliar with this piece of paper that you mentioned. However, we do say that she brought Ali and Umm Ayman forward as witnesses. [Ref. Al-Masaabeeh, Majmu Kutub wa Rasaa`il Imam al-Qaasim ar-Rassi, and others]

As for the reason why Imam Ali (as) did not return Fadak to the descendants of Faatima (as), it could be a variety of reasons. But before that, it must be understood that Ali (as) believed Fadak to be the property of Faatima and her descendants. This is evidenced by the references we mentioned in our last post and other proofs. So, if it is acknowledged that Ali (as) knew that Fadak was the property of Faatima's descendants, there must be extenuating circumstances and reasons that led to him not returning it to them. It must not be assumed that the reason he didn't return it is because he didn't believe it to belong to Faatima's descendants. For that reason, we say that the main reason that Fadak was not returned to Imams al-Hasan (as) and al-Hussein (as) was that they allowed it to remain in the hands of the Muslims and in the use of the imam of their time. This can be evidenced by an incident that was recorded by Shareef al-Alawi in his Jaami' al-Uluum Al Muhammad. He narrated from Imam Muhammad al-Baaqir (as) that Imam Ali (as) asked al-Hasan, al-Hussein, Abdullah b. Abbas and Abdullah b. Ja'far about their right to the khums. He said to them that it belongs to them and it is their choice as to whether they will donate it to him to help against his war against Mu'awiya or keep it. They decided to let him use it. That withstanding, since Imam Ali (as) had three wars during his entire tenure as imam, it is more likely that he offered al-Hasan and al-Hussein their share of Fadak but they allowed him to keep it to generate revenue for his war efforts. Given all of the above, this is the most probable reason.

As for Imam Mansur Billah Abdullah bin Hamza's (as) interpretation, I'm not sure how it was derived. There was no reference to any earlier imams or sources for this opinion in his treatise. He simply brought the opinion forward.

And Allah knows best!

IRS

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #691 by Pro-Alid
Thank you for another response.

In regards to the two ayat which you cited, that according to the Zaydis (and the Shia in general) contradict the hadith of Abu Bakr which states that "Prophets do not leave inheritance" - could you please provide a response to the following Sunni arguments on the matter:

The first verse you cited was about Dawud and Sulayman within Surat an-Naml. However, Sunnis claim that the verse itself (once quoted in full) states that Sulayman only inherited knowledge of the language of the birds, and that the verse prior to it, makes it clear that it was knowledge which Sulayman inherited:

And We had certainly given to David and Solomon knowledge, and they said, "Praise [is due] to Allah, who has favored us over many of His believing servants." (Surat an-Naml 27:15)

And Solomon inherited David. He said, "O people, we have been taught the language of birds, and we have been given from all things. Indeed, this is evident bounty." (Surat an-Naml 27:16)

Additionally, according to both Sunni and Twelver hadiths, Dawud had many sons. Sunnis therefore put the argument forward that if Sulayman was indeed inheriting property, then why were his siblings deprived of such inheritance?

In relation the second ayah which you cited in Surat al-Maryam about Zakariyyah leaving inheritance for his son, which reads as follows: Who will inherit me and inherit from the family of Jacob. And make him, my Lord, pleasing [to You]." (Surat al-Maryam 19:6)

Sunnis claim that the word al-irth (inheritance) which is used in the above ayah, does not exclusively refer to material possessions, as it has also been used in the Quran to denote knowledge, prophethood and sovereignty - so it cannot be said that this ayah contradicts what Abu Bakr has narrated. See the following ayat for example:

Therefore We gave the Book as inheritance (awrathna) to such of Our servants as We have chosen (Surat al-Fatir 35:32)

“Those are the Inheritors (al-warithun) who will inherit Paradise.” (Surat al-Mu’minoon 23:10)


What is the Zaydi response to the above Sunni claims?
Last edit: 6 years 7 months ago by Pro-Alid.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #692 by Imam Rassi Society
Thank you for your question!
As for a reply to the Sunnis regarding the interpretation of the verses, our imams and scholars have responded to their claims. As for the verse {And Suleiman inherited from Dawud}, this cannot be said to be an inheritance of knowledge or Prophethood because such things are not inherited; rather Allah bestows Prophethood and knowledge on whom He wills. Knowledge and Prophethood are not passed down from father to son nor can a father determine which of his sons inherit Prophethood and knowledge. Actually, Suleiman (as) could not have inherited Prophethood because he was a Prophet and had knowledge during the lifetime of his father (as). Allah says in the Qur'an: {And remember David and Solomon, when they gave judgment in the matter of the field into which the sheep of certain people had strayed by night: We did witness their judgment. To Solomon We inspired the (right) understanding of the matter: to each (of them) We gave Judgment and Knowledge; it was Our power that made the hills and the birds celebrate Our praises, with David: it was We Who did (all these things)} (Q. 21:78-79 Yusuf Ali). These verses make it clear that Suleiman already had knowledge and Prophethood before the death of his father. It is therefore nonsensical to say that Suleiman (as) was to inherit anything other than his father's kingdom and wealth.

As for the connection between the verse in which "the Book" is said to be inherited, one cannot use that as a proof to justify the idea of inheriting knowledge or Prophethood because the word 'inheritance' linguistically implies a a passing down of wealth to an heir. The verse that mentions 'inheriting' the Book is specific and cannot be used in a general sense unless there is definitive proof to the contrary.

As for the other verse regarding Yahya (as) inheriting from Zakariyya (as), this verse is even more clear that Prophets leave inheritance. Prophet Zakariyya (as) said: {Lo! I fear my kinsfolk after me, since my wife is barren. Oh, give me from Thy presence a successor. •Who shall inherit of me and inherit (also) of the house of Jacob. And make him, my Lord, acceptable ( unto Thee)." (Q. 19:5-6 Pickthall). The pertinent question is: "If the heir of Zakariyya was to inherit prophethood and knowledge, why would Prophet Zakariyya (as) fear that for his kinsfolk? If Prophethood and knowledge were to be left to his heirs, he should desire that for his relatives. However, Zakariyya (as) did not want to leave his wealth behind to his kinsfolk.

It is for this reason that we say that the verses used by Sayyida Faatima (as) proved her case and disproved the claim of Abu Bakr.

And Allah knows best!

IRS
Last edit: 6 years 7 months ago by Imam Rassi Society.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 7 months ago - 6 years 7 months ago #693 by Pro-Alid
Thank you again.

Are there any definitive reports within Sunni sources which show that Fatima died angry with Abu Bakr? I'm aware of the well known hadith in both Bukhari and Muslim that is narrated on the authority of Aisha. However, the typical Sunni response to this is that the part of the narration which states that Fatima died angry with Abu Bakr, is not actually from the words of Aisha or Fatima, because the report uses the word "qal" (he said) as opposed to "qalat" (she said). Sunnis point out that this addition which reads that Fatima died angry with Abu Bakr has only been included in the reports which include Zuhri in the chain. A number of Sunni scholars have therefore deduced that this addition to the text must be Zuhri's own words, but given that he never met Fatima or witnessed the events in question - it is argued that this particular addition to the text by Zuhri is mursal and cannot be used to establish any claims. So does this mean that it is not possible to prove that Fatima died angry with the use of Sunni sources?
Last edit: 6 years 7 months ago by Pro-Alid.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

More
6 years 7 months ago #698 by Imam Rassi Society
Thank you for your question! There are definitive reports that indicate that Sayyida Faatima (as) died angry with the first two. This is the first time I heard the excuse that az-Zuhri said she died angry with them. It's a pretty pathetic reply if I must say. Even if az-Zuhri was the only one that said it, it does not negate the reality of the matter. We know from history that Sayyida Faatima did not speak to them nor did she allow them to her burial. If this does not indicate anger, I don't know what does!

Anyway, there is a report in Sahiih al-Bukhaari in which the incident is mentioned without the phrase "He said" before mentioning her anger.
أَنَّ فَاطِمَةَ عَلَيْهَا السَّلَام ابْنَةَ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ سَأَلَتْ أَبَا بَكْرٍ الصِّدِّيقَ بَعْدَ وَفَاةِ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ أَنْ يَقْسِمَ لَهَا مِيرَاثَهَا مِمَّا تَرَكَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ مِمَّا أَفَاءَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ فَقَالَ لَهَا أَبُو بَكْرٍ إِنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ قَالَ لَا نُورَثُ مَا تَرَكْنَا صَدَقَةٌ فَغَضِبَتْ فَاطِمَةُ بِنْتُ رَسُولِ اللَّهِ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ فَهَجَرَتْ أَبَا بَكْرٍ فَلَمْ تَزَلْ مُهَاجِرَتَهُ حَتَّى تُوُفِّيَتْ

Similarly, a narration in Sahiih al-Bukhaari mentions the incident and says that she refused to speak to them and attend her burial without the phrase "He said".
فَوَجَدَتْ فَاطِمَةُ عَلَى أَبِي بَكْرٍ فِي ذَلِكَ فَهَجَرَتْهُ فَلَمْ تُكَلِّمْهُ حَتَّى تُوُفِّيَتْ وَعَاشَتْ بَعْدَ النَّبِيِّ صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ سِتَّةَ أَشْهُرٍ فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَتْ دَفَنَهَا زَوْجُهَا عَلِيٌّ لَيْلًا وَلَمْ يُؤْذِنْ بِهَا أَبَا بَكْرٍ وَصَلَّى عَلَيْهَا وَكَانَ لِعَلِيٍّ مِنْ النَّاسِ وَجْهٌ حَيَاةَ فَاطِمَةَ فَلَمَّا تُوُفِّيَتْ اسْتَنْكَرَ عَلِيٌّ وُجُوهَ النَّاسِ

And Allah knows best!

IRS

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Time to create page: 0.173 seconds
Powered by Kunena Forum