What is zaidi view on Raising the finger in Tashud ?
7 years 4 months ago #907
by admin
What is zaidi view on Raising the finger in Tashud ? was created by admin
Generally Zaidis dont raise the finger in the tashahhud. This is because it negates the Prophet's (sawas) command: ((Be calm in the prayer)). Those reports that mention the raising of the finger are disputed even amongst the scholars of the Generality. That being said, there is a hadith in one of our books of hadith Amaali Abu Talib narrated on the authority of Ja'far as-Saadiq (as) in which the Prophet is reported to have said: ((Indicating with the finger is a testimony to Allah's Sublimity (musabbiha)...)) Allah knows best regarding its authenticity. It is for this reason that some of our scholars permit raising the finger in tashahhud at the point that one says Laa ilaha ila Allah--similar to what the Hanifis do.
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11 months 1 week ago #1737
by IlmSeeker
Replied by IlmSeeker on topic What is zaidi view on Raising the finger in Tashud ?
Can you quote the exact hadith?
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11 months 1 week ago - 11 months 1 week ago #1740
by Imam Rassi Society
Replied by Imam Rassi Society on topic What is zaidi view on Raising the finger in Tashud ?
The only reference I was able to find about raising the finger in the tashahhud is in Amaali Ahmed b. 'Isa.
وبه قال: حدثنا محمد بن جميل، عن محمد بن فضيل، عن عَليّ بن كليب، عن أبيه، عن وائل بن حجر قال: كنت فيمن أتى النبي -صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم- فقلت: لأنظرنَّ صلاة رسول الله -صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم-، كيف يصلي، فرأيته حين كبر، رفع يديه حتى حاذى بأذنيه، ثم ضرب بيمينه على شماله فأمسكها، فلما أراد أن يركع رفع يديه، ثم ركع، فوضع يديه على ركبتيه، ثم رفع رأسه، فرفع يديه، ثم سجد فجعل يديه نحواً مما كان في التكبير، فلما جلس افترش رجله اليسرى، ثم وضع يده اليسرى في فخذه الأيسر، ووضع مرفقه الأيمن على فخذه الأيمن، ثم عقد ستين، ثم حلق، ثم جعل يشير بالسبابة.
This hadith is rejected for several reasons. One of which is that one of the narrators, Wa'il b. Hujr, is declared unacceptable by our imams. Also, this narration is not narrated on the authority of any of our imams.
And Allah knows best!
IRS
وبه قال: حدثنا محمد بن جميل، عن محمد بن فضيل، عن عَليّ بن كليب، عن أبيه، عن وائل بن حجر قال: كنت فيمن أتى النبي -صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم- فقلت: لأنظرنَّ صلاة رسول الله -صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم-، كيف يصلي، فرأيته حين كبر، رفع يديه حتى حاذى بأذنيه، ثم ضرب بيمينه على شماله فأمسكها، فلما أراد أن يركع رفع يديه، ثم ركع، فوضع يديه على ركبتيه، ثم رفع رأسه، فرفع يديه، ثم سجد فجعل يديه نحواً مما كان في التكبير، فلما جلس افترش رجله اليسرى، ثم وضع يده اليسرى في فخذه الأيسر، ووضع مرفقه الأيمن على فخذه الأيمن، ثم عقد ستين، ثم حلق، ثم جعل يشير بالسبابة.
This hadith is rejected for several reasons. One of which is that one of the narrators, Wa'il b. Hujr, is declared unacceptable by our imams. Also, this narration is not narrated on the authority of any of our imams.
And Allah knows best!
IRS
Last edit: 11 months 1 week ago by Imam Rassi Society.
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11 months 1 week ago #1745
by IlmSeeker
Replied by IlmSeeker on topic What is zaidi view on Raising the finger in Tashud ?
"That being said, there is a hadith in one of our books of hadith Amaali Abu Talib narrated on the authority of Ja'far as-Saadiq (as) in which the Prophet is reported to have said: ((Indicating with the finger is a testimony to Allah's Sublimity (musabbiha)..."
What about this from Ja'far as Sadiq? Is it non-existant?
What about this from Ja'far as Sadiq? Is it non-existant?
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11 months 6 days ago - 11 months 6 days ago #1747
by Imam Rassi Society
Replied by Imam Rassi Society on topic What is zaidi view on Raising the finger in Tashud ?
Thanks for this reference!
I found the Arabic text in the Amaali Abu Taalib as follows:
عن علي عليه السلام، قال، قال رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وآله وسلم: (( الإشارةبالإصبع المسبحة في الصلاة وفي الدعاء مراضاة للرب تعالى، مقمعة للشيطان، وهي الإخلاص ))
Translation: "...on the authority of 'Ali, upon him be peace: 'Allah's Messenger, may Allah bless him and his progeny and grant them peace, said: ((Indicating with the finger is the glorification in the prayer and in the supplication, a means of the Lord's pleasure, a means of subjecting the Satan and it is sincerity))."
There are apparently no defects in its chain, as all the narrators are held to be reliable. Also, the same report appears in the text, Al-Mukhtaar as-Sahiih.
On first glance of the text of the hadith, the meaning is unclear, as it does not state which finger, which hand or at which point in the prayer. It is interesting to note that it also mentions the same indicating with the finger "in the supplication"; yet, I've never seen anyone advocate for this. It similarly raises the question as to which finger, which hand and at which point of the supplication.
There is also the problem as to why the author of the Amaali had not mentioned this report in his Sharh at-Tajriid and used it as a proof for indicating with the finger in the tashahhud.
And Allah knows best!
IRS
I found the Arabic text in the Amaali Abu Taalib as follows:
عن علي عليه السلام، قال، قال رسول اللّه صلى اللّه عليه وآله وسلم: (( الإشارةبالإصبع المسبحة في الصلاة وفي الدعاء مراضاة للرب تعالى، مقمعة للشيطان، وهي الإخلاص ))
Translation: "...on the authority of 'Ali, upon him be peace: 'Allah's Messenger, may Allah bless him and his progeny and grant them peace, said: ((Indicating with the finger is the glorification in the prayer and in the supplication, a means of the Lord's pleasure, a means of subjecting the Satan and it is sincerity))."
There are apparently no defects in its chain, as all the narrators are held to be reliable. Also, the same report appears in the text, Al-Mukhtaar as-Sahiih.
On first glance of the text of the hadith, the meaning is unclear, as it does not state which finger, which hand or at which point in the prayer. It is interesting to note that it also mentions the same indicating with the finger "in the supplication"; yet, I've never seen anyone advocate for this. It similarly raises the question as to which finger, which hand and at which point of the supplication.
There is also the problem as to why the author of the Amaali had not mentioned this report in his Sharh at-Tajriid and used it as a proof for indicating with the finger in the tashahhud.
And Allah knows best!
IRS
Last edit: 11 months 6 days ago by Imam Rassi Society.
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11 months 6 days ago #1748
by IlmSeeker
Replied by IlmSeeker on topic What is zaidi view on Raising the finger in Tashud ?
As far as i know: بالإصبع المسبحة means "indexfinger". There are similar reports in the books of the Hanafi madhab. In the supplication means during the duaas in the tashahhud that are said after the shahadah (or outside of prayer like the raising of the finger during the duaa in the khutbah).
That's the view of Hanafi madhab that one should form a ring with middlefinger and thumb and close the pink and ringfinger and raise the the indexfinger when saying "laa ilahaa" and lower it a little bit after having said "ill Allaah" and thereafter continue pointing during the duaas till one says the salaam.
This the following is stated in the Hanafi book called Maraqi al Falah:
Pointing, according to the correct position, with the index finger at the testifying raising it at the negation and lowering it at the affirmation
This is sunna because he, upon him be peace and blessings, raised his index finger curving it slightly. Whoever says that raising should
not be done at all has gone against narration and understanding. Pointing is only with the index finger of the right hand and occurs
when finishing at the testifying in the testification because of the statement of Abu Hurayra, Allah be pleased with him, “A man used to supplicate with two fingers. The Messenger of Allah, upon him be peace and blessings, said to him, “One. One.””
The index finger is raised at the negation. This negates divinity from anything other than Allah, Exalted is He, by saying, “There is no god”. It is then lowered at the affirmation. This affirms divinity to Allah alone by saying, “except Allah”. Thus, raising is an indication of negation and lowering is of affirmation."
Then in chapter of qunut in the same book it is narrated from Muhammad bin Hanafiyya (which also one the imaams in Zaydi madhab):
"Mabsut mentions from Muhammad ibn Hanafiyya who said, “Supplication
is four:
1. Hopeful supplication in which he has the centre of his palms to the sky.
2. Fearful supplication in which he has the back of his hands to his face like a person seeking protection from something.
3. Humble supplication in which he clenches the small finger and the ring finger, circles the thumb and the middle finger, and points with index finger.
4. Secret supplication which is that which a person does to himself."
May i ask why the sahabi Wail bin Hujr is not reliable to the Zaydi scholars?
That's the view of Hanafi madhab that one should form a ring with middlefinger and thumb and close the pink and ringfinger and raise the the indexfinger when saying "laa ilahaa" and lower it a little bit after having said "ill Allaah" and thereafter continue pointing during the duaas till one says the salaam.
This the following is stated in the Hanafi book called Maraqi al Falah:
Pointing, according to the correct position, with the index finger at the testifying raising it at the negation and lowering it at the affirmation
This is sunna because he, upon him be peace and blessings, raised his index finger curving it slightly. Whoever says that raising should
not be done at all has gone against narration and understanding. Pointing is only with the index finger of the right hand and occurs
when finishing at the testifying in the testification because of the statement of Abu Hurayra, Allah be pleased with him, “A man used to supplicate with two fingers. The Messenger of Allah, upon him be peace and blessings, said to him, “One. One.””
The index finger is raised at the negation. This negates divinity from anything other than Allah, Exalted is He, by saying, “There is no god”. It is then lowered at the affirmation. This affirms divinity to Allah alone by saying, “except Allah”. Thus, raising is an indication of negation and lowering is of affirmation."
Then in chapter of qunut in the same book it is narrated from Muhammad bin Hanafiyya (which also one the imaams in Zaydi madhab):
"Mabsut mentions from Muhammad ibn Hanafiyya who said, “Supplication
is four:
1. Hopeful supplication in which he has the centre of his palms to the sky.
2. Fearful supplication in which he has the back of his hands to his face like a person seeking protection from something.
3. Humble supplication in which he clenches the small finger and the ring finger, circles the thumb and the middle finger, and points with index finger.
4. Secret supplication which is that which a person does to himself."
May i ask why the sahabi Wail bin Hujr is not reliable to the Zaydi scholars?
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