"The Caliphate after me..."

Reposted

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Salam,

What is the Zaydi view of these hadiths by the Prophet (S.A.W.?:

"The khilaafah after me in my Ummah will last for thirty years. Then there will be kingship after that."Reported in the Musnad Imaam Ahmad, by at-Tirmidhi, Musnad Abi Ya'laa, and Ibn Hibbaan; "Saheeh"by Imaam al-Albaani (ra)

"Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi and An-Nasa'i have all reported from the hadith of Sa'id ibn Juhman, from Safinah - the mawla of the Messenger of Allah sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam, that the Messenger of Allah sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "The Succesorship (Al-Khilafah) after me will last for thirty years. Then kingship will appear." -"Sahih"-Related by Abu Dawud, At-Tirmidhi, Authenticated by At-Tabari in his I'tiqad, and Al-Hafidh ibn Hajr in Fath-al Bari.

"The Prophethood will remain amongst you for as long as Allaah wills it to be. Then Allaah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be the khilaafah upon the Prophetic methodology. And it will last for as long as Allaah wills it to last. Then Allaah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be biting kingship, and it will remain for as long as Allaah wills it to remain. Then Allaah will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be tyrannical (forceful) kingship and it will remain for as long as Allaah wills it to remain. Then He will raise it when He wills to raise it. Then there will be a khilaafah upon the Prophetic methodology."-Silsilah as-Saheehah of Imaam al-Albani; "Sahih"

This shows that the Prophet (S.A.W.) didn't choose anyone because why would he say the succession would last for 30 years if he had chosen Imam Ali (as)? JazakAllah,

Wsalam
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Salam!

Thanks for your question.

As to the reported tradition attributed to the Prophet (sawas), i dont know of it in Zaydi sources. Therefore, I cannot comment on its veracity or authenticity.

I would say that this report would be more of a problem to Sunnis because Sunnis maintain that the Prophet (sawas) did not appoint a successor. Therefore, if he were purported to say that there would be successors for thirty years, it would make sense that he would specify who these successors were. If you were to read the annals of Muslim history, you would see that some Companions questioned the authority of each of the "Four Rightly Guided Caliphs." Prominent Companions, such as Sa'd bin Ubaada rejected the caliphates of Abu Bakr and Umar. Certain Companions called for the blood of Uthmaan due to his innovations. Prominent Companions such as Talha, az-Zubayr, Aisha, Mu'awiya, and the like fought against the "Fourth Rightly Guided Caliph", Ali (as). All of this took place within the 30 years that the Prophet (sawas) supposedly said that there would be khilafa.

It would therefore not serve your interests to quote or publicise this supposed 'hadith' because it would present prominent Companions as rebels and renegades against the "Successors" that the Prophet (sawas) supposedly failed to name.

If this 'hadith' were true, i would argue that the "successorship" that was to last for thirty years refers to the successorship of Imam Ali bin Abi Talib (as). Although he did not hold the office of Caliph for that thirty years, he was nevertheless the successor of the Prophet (sawas) during that time. It is similar to the hadith ((I leave behind me two successors (khalifatain) the Book of Allah and my Progeny. If you hold to them you will never go astray after me)). This hadith with the word "two successors" appears in books such as Musnad Ahmed and it was authenticated. Therefore, in the report of the thirty years of khilafa--if it is authentic--there is a proof that Imam Ali (as) was the successor whether the Muslims recognised him as such or not. This is because Imam ali died almost thirty years after the Prophet (sawas).

And Allah knows best!

IRS

Well the hadith is actually a prophecy and not a commandment. If we count, Abu Bakr (ra), Umar (ra), Uthman (ra), Ali (as), and Hasan (as) lasted for 30 years. And as we know, Muawiyah started the monarchy. Since the prophecy actually came true, then how can this hadith be fabricated?

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It is highly unlikely that a narration in which the Prophet (sawas) mentions "successors" is just a prophecy and not a command to follow them. As I said before, this assumption opens the door for many contradictions and discrepancies. It would be akin to the Prophet (sawas) saying "There will be thirty years of successors after me but you dont have to follow them if you dont want." "Successors" means one who is to be followed after the Prophet (sawas). Similar is the contradictory report "There will be twelve successors..." Is that a prophecy or a command to follow them? If it's a prophecy and not a command to follow them, this would show the Prophet made a false prophecy and lied (astaghfirullah) because there were not twelve successors after him. Furthermore, if there were no command to follow the 30 years of caliphs, what makes them different from the kings that would come after them?!

Also, if both of these reports were true (Successors for 30 years) and (12 successors) this would be two 'prophecies' that contradicted each other. You have one of four possibilities: One, Both 'prophecies' were true and there were twelve successors within the 30 years--which didnt happen. Two, the 'prophecy' of the 12 successors is true and the 'prophecy' of the 30 years of succession is false. Three, the 'prophecy' of the 30 years of succession is true and the 'prophecy' of the 12 successors is false. Four, both reports are false because one contradicts the other.

Furthermore, it's curious that this 'prophecy' of thirty years of khilafa does not appear in Sahih al-Bukhaari and Sahih Muslim. It is possible because maybe Imam al-Bukhaari did not consider one of its narrators Sa'id bin Jumhaan as reliable.

Regardless, many of the points we raised in the last post were not addressed. It is interesting that many Sunnis consider Mu'awiya to be a caliph as well as others who followed despite the fact that he came after the 30 years as you said.

Such a troublesome report demonstrates that it was indeed fabricated after the time of the 'caliphs' in order to justify their rule.

And Allah knows best!

IRS

It seems like you're confusing this hadith and the hadith of 12 caliphs. The 12 caliphs hadith does not state that all 12 will come successively. Generally speaking we know who the first 5 caliphs are of the hadith (Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Hassan may Allah (swt) be pleased with all of them). Regarding the rest, they may have yet to come, Allah (swt) knows best.

Regarding the hadith that I posted, once again, as sunni's, we don't believe the Prophet (pbuh) choose anyone as his successor. The hadith clearly shows a prophecy for what will happen afterwards and he (s.a.w.) stated that there will be a period of caliphate than a period of oppressive kingship then caliphate again. As you may notice, we today are currently in the "oppressive kingdom" phase and are waiting for the caliphate to come back and for the arrival of Imam Mahdi (as). And regarding Muawiyah, he is considered the first king as he was the first to set up a monarchy.

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Sorry for the delay in responding.

Of course, you are free to believe whatever you like. However, your original post and question had to do with the Zaydi opinion of these narrations you mentioned. After researching, I see that none of our imams or scholars related the above mentioned reports regarding the 30 year khilaafa. Some of our imams and scholars commented on it. They pretty much said what I said earlier. They doubt the veracity of the narrations for various reasons.

And one of them said that if the hadith is authentic, it refers to the successorship of 'Ali (as) which lasted almost 30 years after the Prophet (sawas). This is reasonable because out of the four, 'Ali (as) is the only one referred to as 'caliph' by the Prophet (sawas). I will refer you to the hadith connected to the revelation of Sura 26:214 where the Prophet said to Ali ((Verily, this is my brother, appointee, and successor (caliph) amongst you! Therefore, listen to him and obey him!)). This was narrated by Imam Ahmed in his Musnad and Fazaa`il as-sahaabah . Imam Ibn Hajar al-Haythami also narrated this incident in detail in his Majmu’ az-Zawā`id and said:
"Al-Bazzār narrated it, and his wording, as well as that of Ahmed, is condensed. Imam at-Tabarāni narrated it in his Al-Aswat with condensed wording also. The narrators in Ahmed and al-Bazzār are authentic, with the exception of Sharīk. However, he is reliable."

Second, we did not confuse the two narrations (12 successors) and (30 years of successorship). Rather, we pointed out that the two are contradictory. This was also pointed out by the likes of scholars like Qadi Iyad.

Third, if we were to accept the import of the third report you quoted: "The Prophethood will remain amongst you for as long as Allaah wills it to be..." it would imply that the rulers after Imam al-Hasan (as) were all oppressive kings. Does this apply to Umar bin Abdul-Azeez, Salahudeen al-Ayyubi, the Ottomans or others? Were they considered oppressive kings? On the contrary, many of them are considered just caliphs by the Sunni world.

Speaking of the 12 caliphs, if we are waiting on the last seven of them, how will we recognise them? Did the Prophet (sawas) give any indication of how we will identify who they are and their characteristics? Otherwise, we are left in the dark as to who they are. We will be forced to pull straws as many hadith commentators have done. Not surprisingly, Zaydis deny the authenticity of the 'twelve caliphs' report as well.

Feel free to peruse our scribd site: www.scribd.com/imamrassisociety or this site to read our translations and articles. Maybe it would answer any further questions you have. You are also welcomed to check out our book that goes into detail explaining the proofs for Zaydi aqeeda from Sunni sources. It is called The Establishment of Clear Explanation. It is advertised on this site as well as our scribd site.

Remember us in your dua in the last ten nights of Ramadan.

And Allah knows best!

IRS

Asalamulakyum,

JazakAllah brother for responding. Your explanation actually makes logical sense. Quick question regarding that hadith you posted. Why would the Prophet s.a.w. make this declaration at such an early age? And many of those people present at this declaration were not Muslims at the time if I recall correctly, so what would be the use of such a declaration?

Walakam as Salaam

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wa alaykum as salaam.

We pray that all is well with you and your family during this blessed month.

The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, made the declaration at that time because he was commanded to by Allah. {And warn thy nearest of kin} (Q. 26:214) It is the practice of the Prophets (as) to first appeal to their family members to aid them in their mission. This is evident from verses such as {“Verily, we see thee as weak amongst us! Had it not been for thy clan, we would have stoned thee!”} (Q. 11:91). The Exalted also says regarding the other role of the Prophetic families: {And We have given the family of Abraham the Book and Wisdom. And We granted them a mighty kingdom} (Q. 4:54). Our Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him and his progeny, is not an exception.

By him inviting his family and clan to assist him in becoming Muslim and propagating Islam, he was following the examples of the Prophets before him who appointed their families as heirs to the mission.

As you said, most of his clan (including his uncles) were disbelievers at the time so his invitation to them was to first accept his mission and then aid him in that. The messenger said to them: ((O Bani ‘Abdul Mutālib, I have come to you with the best of this world and the Hereafter. Allah has ordered me to call you unto Him. Who will be my vizier in this affair? Who will be my brother, appointee, and successor amongst you?)) They were all silent except 'Ali (as). After accepting Ali's offer, the Prophet then stated the aforementioned hadith.

It is interesting that Abu Lahab understood the import of the hadith when he chided Abu Talib by saying: “Your son has become your leader (amīr)! So you have to listen to ‘Ali and obey him!” Abu Lahab knew that Ali was to assume leadership.

This also hints to the fact that Abu Talib was a believer. Otherwise, why would Abu Lahab affirm that a disbeliever has to obey a believer?!

And Allah knows best!

IRS